Cost analysis - monthly & free tech support & upgrades, vs. one time fee and pay for tech support & upgrades as you decide you want them

Backups -  done automatically for you vs. having to back up

Online access vs. not

Features -  that one has that the other does not

Stability - which one works better with no functional glitches. Does it work all the time without freezing, giving you a blue screen, or simply not doing what it's supposed to do.

Usability - Moving from screen to screen; finding what you want quickly; doing what you want without too many key strokes.

Ease of learning - compare one to the other in that regard. Which one was easier for you to pick up?

Flexibility - If it doesn't already do what you want, can you usually devise a work-around to accomplish it?

Listening - Which company was better at listening to you when it comes to implementing suggestions, if you ever officially made any.

Tech support - good bad or indifferent for each.

ANYTHING else you care to comment on.

I've used Agent Office for about a year after using TP7i for a few months and being frustrated with the lack of offline ability and it's slowness on some aspects. Then this past spring/summer I went back to TP7i. Just my views:

• Cost analysis - TP is much more expensive than AO unless you want to start paying for Tech Support, and other extras (with AO).

• Backups - I didn't always trust AO backups, but wasn't really a problem. With TP, I don't have any control over it. You can export virtually all of TP's data to store locally.

• Online access vs. not - One of the big reasons I'm back with TP is it's ease of use on numerous computers without having to synch or set up remote services. I also have a partner and it is very easy to see her entries and share without ever having to synch. One of the biggies for me. AO works very nicely on a network. Always has. If you're working with computers on the same network, there is no need to synch.  If you take a laptop out of the network, you leave with your database. When you return, you plug back into the network, click on 'Synch Self" and you're back into the network with a merged database.

• Features - I really like TP's e-mail capabilities more than AO. Especially automatically going into contacts history. That happens AO as well. A little more versatile than AO. I have heard that AO has had an upgrade since I stopped using it though.

• Stability - An occasional glitch that is normally easily resolved with TP, less so in AO, but always difficult to resolve and to get through to Tech Support. As of 12/16/06 tech support has gotten much better than it was.

• Usability - I like AO multiple screens, but a little clunky with big monitors and resolutions. TP is getting somewhat better now with more than one open window available (limited) but working much faster than previously.

• Ease of learning - I'm relatively Techie, both programs very basic functions are relatively easy. The more advanced stuff is probably easier in TP to learn and to use.

• Flexibility - I would give AO a C-. I had a hard time figuring out a lot of it, and just didn't have the time to design pages and do the customization. TP is probably a B-. A lot easier to customize some things. Much more difficult to bring external data into the program (than in AO).

• Listening - I went back to TP because they have in fact implemented some of my and other requests. The secondary scheduler and contact windows, Remote, and some other minor stuff. It takes a long time, but if they have enough requests they seem to do some of them. I never received any feedback from AO Tech Support or suggestions other than we may do that in a future version.

• Tech support - Much better and responsive for TP. And free.

• ANYTHING else - The biggies for me, were the relative ease of use of TP over AO in the versions I used. Multiple computer on-line access without the need to keep in synch. (Now that Remote is also available in case connectivity is down).

• TP, just has a nicer interface IMHO.

.Gabe Sanders e-PRO, REALTOR

I was a long time user of Agent Office for well over 5 years. The most recent version I was using was Version 7.0. I switched to TP 7i about 4 months ago.

1. One thing I liked about AO is that you could have more than one Contact window open at a time. With TP7i I can only view One complete Contact record at a time. That will change in the relatively near future.

2. I hated that I could never get the CMA module of AO to work with my MLS. And it particularly irked me when AO & my MLS software were both owned by Moore Data. I would say to the tech support dept: "Why can't this program work with my MLS" And they would say to me:"Sorry. It just doesn't" And then over the years as things were sold and moved around and both AO & my MLS software became owned by FNIS, I would ask again: Why can't the CMA module work with my MLS? And the answer was always. "Sorry. We don't do that. Just ignore that module Gary". AO went a smart route by becoming RETS compliant. Unfortunately, what they could not have forseen, was that many MLS' don't want to either a) spend the money to become RETS compliant b) are RETS compliant, but don't want to risk their 'sold' data being aggregated by the wrong people, or    c) expect AO to pay for access to the data.

With TP7i the Top Connector module works beautifully and imports pictures and everything. No problem doing a CMA within TP7i.

3. The AO e-mail module was too clunky and cumbersome to use. And to do a Mass E-mail I had to first send the e-mail from AO and then open Outlook and send the e-mails from Outlook. All AO would do is to move the bundle of outgoing e-mail messages from AO and place it into my Outlook Outbox. It would not actually send the e-mail. I'd then have to click send/receive within Outlook for the mail to actually be sent. Way too many steps. Leaving Outlook open, and setting it to send/receive automatically every X minutes, completely alleviates that issue.

With TP7i Mass e-mails are a breeze and the e-mail module is a lot more robust and user friendly. This alone was what sold me on making the switch. AO's e-mail was much improved since version 7.

I also like that TP7i lets me create a flyer or other marketing piece and e-mail a link that the customer can click to open the document rather than a large attachment being sent.

I like the TP7i Client service docs as well that can be posted to the web where I can also send the client a link in an e-mail.

I like the TP7i unsubscribe feature that a person can click so that I can be Can-Spam compliant. It flags their record and prevents me from sending them another e-mail - (though there is also the ability to override that in case they unsubscribed in error).

Stability - which one works better with no functional glitches. Does it work all the time without freezing, giving you a blue screen, or simply not doing what it's supposed to do.

I've found both stable. I would not often get the Blue Screen of Death. But both I and my assistant are on XP Pro.

The one down side of TP7i is that there is often a small delay accessing data over the web vs. with AO getting the data over the internal computer network connection. Sometimes it takes a few seconds for the data to show up on my screen with TP7i.

Usability - Moving from screen to screen; finding what you want quickly; doing what you want without too many key strokes.

Moving from screen to screen is easy in both programs. TP7i seems to have more depth and features.

Ease of learning - compare one to the other in that regard. Which one was easier for you to pick up?

TP7i wins. The TP rep comes to our office every other month to do live training. Tech support is excellent. They answer quickly and will address all questions. AO was not very courteous about addressing usability questions thru tech support. And AO was always asking me to renew my tech support subscription and I had to go thru a whole production with them each time. TP has unlimited tech support built into the monthly subscription fee.

I've had AO's Rolf Anderson books, the 10 volume Video Tape training series and Jim Casey's DVD's. Casey's DVD's were the best of the bunch.

TP offers a basic live training course over the web and an advanced live training course over the web at $29.95 each. I found them extremely valuable. The Two disk TP7i DVD training set is informative - I'd put it on a par with Casey's AO DVD's.

Flexibility - If it doesn't already do what you want, can you usually devise a work-around to accomplish it?

I can't really point out a difference in the Two on that point.

Which company was better at listening to you when it comes to implementing suggestions, if you ever officially made any.

Tech support - good bad or indifferent for each.

AO always seemed to ignore my requests over the years to improve the program. And the techs seemed to act as is they were bothered by even taking my call.  TP seems much more receptive to suggestions. They encourage program enhancement suggestions.  I won't be going back. In the last year, AO has gotten much more responsive, and solicits input from me and others. There last upgrade was a significant improvement.

Gary Leogrande , Keller Williams NY Realty, White Plains, NY

Outlook is a very good CRM and add Pat Zaby's Response system it makes it better. I'm not sure what the current cost of his software is. It will sync with several of the PDA programs.

With Outlook you can organize your contact into various groups (A, B, C Prospects, Buyers, Sellers .....), set follow up reminders for letters, calls etc.  You can set up a drip campaign but it is not automatic as it would be in TP or Zaby's add-on.

When you can afford TP I'd suggest you begin to use it. It has a HUGE learning curve but when you master it you just can't get any better (IMHO).

Paul Bowling

Here is an interesting exchange between two gents who were TP 6i users for years. The first person is angry about how things rolled out to 7i, followed by a rebuttal.

Dear TP,

You have a lot of nerve inviting me to come back. I NEVER LEFT; YOU LEFT ME!

You sold me 6i & said I'd get all upgrades & updates. I'm still waiting for upgrades to 6i. Never got one, but certainly am being offered a lifetime payment of $30/month for the remainder of my career. Ain't gonna happen.

When I finish with 6i, I will seek out a different contact manager & never look back to TP again. You disgust me.

Ivan….

Mark Jay wonders:

Just how long is software supposed to “last”? Five years? Ten years. Fifteen? Forever?

I use TP7i. I can remember attending a three full day training session—or was it four full days? Actually, it was so long ago, I just don’t remember. I do remember it was the summer of 2003 because I remember the car I drove to the training center and where I parked. So I’ve been using 7i for at least 4 years. It is probably longer that that because I remember struggling a bit with it and because of that concluding that I just HAD to get trained so I could become productive. Did I start with 7i late in 2002? Gosh, that seems like a long time ago!

Before 7i I used 6i. Did I use 6i a couple of years before upgrading? Did I start with 6i six years ago? Or was it 5? Or even 7? That; I don’t remember either.

I DO remember chucking the Top Producer 6i box and disk in the dumpster along with an old Windows 98 desktop computer and other software titles—like Office 98, Microsoft Streets and Trips and Encarta from the 1990’s—when I moved in the fall of 2003.

So, I guess I not only stopped using TP6i FOUR years ago, I even threw the box and disk in the garbage. I couldn’t imagine ever going back to the old 6i once I had upgraded, so I tossed it. And you’re not only still using 6i but you’re angry and “disgusted” that even though it still works some 7 years after it’s release, at some point in the future, you won’t be able to use 6i any more? Is THAT it?

And I don’t understand what you mean when you wrote to TP “you sold me 6i and said I’d get all upgrades & updates…I’m still waiting for upgrades to 6i”. I understood 7i to be the upgrade--7i IS the upgrade to 6i; isn’t it? I recall getting an e-mail from Top Producer announcing that their product was going on-line on a subscription basis and I thought “GREAT!”—no more back ups, no more calls to the help line, just log on anytime anywhere and work. You can’t really think that you can pay a fee to license some software and then be able to use and have that software upgraded free for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, do you? That’s not in the documentation, is it? They never said “forever”, did they?

Is it the $30 per month that also has you angry and disgusted? If it is; I don’t get that either. Don’t you get your car washed every week? Ten bucks for a wash and vacuum, a couple of bucks in the tip box for the towel men and you’re at MORE than $30 a month, right? I’ve never seen anyone at the car wash that looks like they might have a college degree, much less a computer engineering degree or network maintenance certification. In fact, the last time I was at the carwash I didn’t see anyone who even had all their TEETH—plenty of tattoos, lots of scars and scabs and a couple of missing fingers and I don’t feel angry or disgusted that I pay these ladies and gentlemen $30 plus per month—I feel clean and happy and fresh; because everyone knows a clean car runs better.

Maybe I’m misjudging your situation. You also wrote “a lifetime payment of $30/month for the remainder of my career. Ain't gonna happen.” I can certainly appreciate you wanting to squeeze another couple of years out of some stale software if you’re near retirement or something. Is that it? There certainly isn’t any reason to upgrade your systems anymore if you’re 65 or 66 or so, and so rheumy eyed and stumbley that you won’t be able to list and sell too much longer. What’s the point if that’s your situation? Is that it?

Maybe I’ve gone on too long in my comments but I’ve got another thought related to my comments above. Recently, either here or on the other list, someone gleefully reported that you could still obtain a brand new computer with Windows XP pre-installed. WHY would anyone want a new computer with a six year old operating system? I don’t get THAT either. At some point you WILL upgrade to Vista and then you’ll have to PAY for Vista and because a clean install is the best practice upgrade, you’ll have to fiddle around with data back ups and the rest-- burning up even MORE time and introducing the probability that something will go wrong. It just doesn’t make sense except to the fearful. And there’s nothing to be afraid of. Vista works beautifully.  I upgraded a Vista capable machine from XP with NO problems—NONE. I downloaded—yes DOWNLOADED-- Office 2007 and THAT had no problems.

If you’ve got some “legacy” applications you want to use that don’t run on Vista, then you buy a Vista machine, download the FREE copy of Microsoft’s Virtual Machine 2007, install that and then install the copy of XP from the old machine you just dumped in the trash on the Virtual Machine along with the legacy apps you need; and you’re all set. Your Vista machine should have 2 gig of memory so you can dedicate 256 meg of that to the Virtual Machine and you should also have around 100 gig of hard drive space so you can dedicate maybe 20 gig of THAT to the Virtual Machine—that should be all you ever need because you’re only going to use the Virtual Machine to run what won’t run on the Vista Host, right?

Now you have a machine that runs Vista AND XP. After you can dump your legacy applications upgrading to the Vista compatible versions or entirely new applications that will run on Vista, you simply transfer what you need from the XP and other program folders on the Virtual Machine to the proper Vista folders—everything is on the same hard drive so it couldn’t BE any easier—and then delete the entire Virtual Machine and everything—XP, the legacy apps—that’s installed on the Virtual Machine. Then take your XP disk and toss THAT in the waste basket.

Certainly, there is a little “discomfort” when changing or “upgrading” software and hardware. But haven’t we ALL gone through that physical and emotional process before? It’s not like computers are something new, is it? I got my first XP machine in 1987—that’s TWENTY years ago! Every single time I upgraded I had to spend some time “fiddling around”. I had a little anxiety. There was some loss of productivity. But then in a couple of DAYS—not weeks or months— the angst evaporated and everything went back to normal; except better and faster; with never a regret.

After going through the SAME emotional process every time I upgrade or CHANGE something I know the feelings I’ll be having. In fact, I’m so used to the feelings of anxiety, confusion, uncertainty and productivity reduction and how long those feelings last—because I’ve been through that cascade so often-- that now I don’t really even have those feelings anymore. New hardware, new software—even MAJOR changes like VISTA just don’t affect me for more that a couple of hours. You DO IT and then it’s over. EVERY time I go through an upgrade cycle I look back after a couple of days and wonder why I was anxious for even a minute.

In other words, change is GOOD. Get used to it. It comes at a faster and faster and faster rate with each passing year. The only place you can avoid change is when you’re under the sod at the Cemetery.

Life doesn’t move in reverse, it moves forward and into the future. And yes TP 7i WILL cost you a dollar a day for the rest of your life—if you choose to use it. …And of course if TP doesn’t raise the price ;-))) Give TP your credit or debit card number, migrate your data—it’s EASY—get some on-line training and get back to work. Then if you’re like EVERYBODY else who’s gone from 6i to 7i, post back and tell us what a fool you were for not doing it sooner….

Mark Jay

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